Not true, Nanami really shapes up in her last duel, and both time she needed the power of Dios to defeat her. The only duelitss she doesn't defeat with the power of Dios is Miki (1st Arc), Saionji 1st round, Touga 2nd round (I swear that "I'm carrying a broken weapon compared to your sharp longsword", does show that she has skills) Wakaba, I think she also beats Touga in the 3rd Arc without the Power of Dios using once agian "You're on a motorcycle, looking as if you're going to cut off my head, but let me rush at you with sword, hardly at your waist and cut off your rose" sort of thing. Though as proven, especially in that last duel with her, Utena desperately neded the Power of Dios to beat her that time. I'd say out of all the time she activates that power, that is the most cheating time to do so, she's on the floor, Nanami's about to win, then wha? I win button? It's like utena's playing with a Gamshark during that last arc.

Utena certainly doesn't practice kendo or fencing outside the duelling arena, so her formal skills are nonexistant. Under normal circumstances she could only win through pure luck or opponent doing a crave mistake. Then again, under normal circumstances it'd be near-impossible to cut off a rose on a person's chest without wounding them, in any case. The point, I think is that in the duelling arena ordinary skill is only a part of the package - the sincerity one fights with takes a long way, in there, since it's Akio's goal to refine the purest of hearts. The Power of Dios only adds to this by giving yet another unfair advantage to Utena, after she's been ultimately chosen as the coming winner of the duels.

Iris wrote:

I can't recall what episode it's said in, but it's mentioned that the sword of Dios, although very strong, is still just a sword.  No matter what, the person still has to have very good fencing skills.

It was Saionji who said that, at time when he wasn't in very understanding state of mind. He said that its wielder must be a "great swordsman". He was referring to the skill, ofcourse, but at the time he didn't have slightest idea of the true nature of the duels. Still, he might have had an unintentional point - in most cultures it takes more to be a great swordsman than just skill. Samurai, knights and princes, for that matter are generally seen pursuing higher goals - sincerity and purity.

I personally believe that Juri has more skill than any other. The ironic thing about Juri's duels is simply that she loses to miracles. This is why she duels, as well as why she is defeated. In her first duel anyway. Juri COULD have won the first duel, despite Dios. If you'll notice, the whole re-used clip of Dios descending to Utena happens BEFORE Juri knocks the blade from her hand. If the sword had not miraculously fallen in the EXACT way as to penetrate her rose, Utena would have lost.

The second duel is fought, in my opinion, against Juri's will. Ruka won the duel between them, and she had to do as he asked. All he asked of her was to take a ride [albiet to the End of the World! but still]. He didn't TELL her she had to duel, but he carefully planned the setup out. Playing the tape of Shiori, the mockery of her loves and beliefs...then he so casually mentions the duel. Juri isn't fighting for...anything, really, in the eyes of some. I never stop thinking that she fights for her miracle, not to disprove them. But when Utena makes her move, Juri does not loose her rose, but her locket. Yah yah, blah blah, we all know what happens. But this always sticks out to me. When she removes her rose, it becomes pretty clear that Juri would rather have her love than gain the power of revolution. She wants to love Shiori. Her fighting to disprove miracles was a guise for her wish to have one, but its debatable what her miracle really was. Some think it was so she would no longer love Shiori. But in the end, Juri would rather have the ability to feel something, even if it is pain,  than have the power to feel nothing. [this is why I believe that her miracle would be having her affection returned. But that really isn't important right now.]

But *ahem* back to the question, I think that if Juri were really trying, she could easily beat Utena. But the sad thing is, nothing would make Juri really try. She may want a miracle, but she doesn't believe that she could be granted one. So subconsciously, there isn't a chance she would give up what she feels in her heart.

dollface wrote:

But *ahem* back to the question, I think that if Juri were really trying, she could easily beat Utena. But the sad thing is, nothing would make Juri really try. She may want a miracle, but she doesn't believe that she could be granted one. So subconsciously, there isn't a chance she would give up what she feels in her heart.

I agree with this, and would add that's what makes her the best fighter in the arena. She's internally opposed to winning, she doesn't want to win, but it means she fights with a cool head, and it actually makes her better for it. Out of the arena, I wouldn't necessarily say she's the best fighter. She's the best fencer, yes, because pretty much everyone says Miki's not a good fighter. Ruka...well you don't know the story there. He taught her, but the student can always top the master. She is the fencing team's captain, so she's good. But if you're measuring skill outside the arena, Saionji competes and apparently wins repeatedly. Yet he certainly doesn't appear to be as good as Juri when it's time to face Utena. Opposite problem; he's so bent on winning that he gets too riled up and it messes with his performance. By the way Saionji speaks of it, Touga's at least as good as he is, perhaps better.

All the duelists are defeated by themselves, but Juri wants to be defeated. The others really do want to win, and the emotionally charged atmosphere tends to work against them. The only one that could remotely compete with Juri for being coolheaded in the arena is Touga. Ruka I'm not counting since I think he was more scouting the territory than trying to win.

This is kinda off the subject but didn't the BRS duelists tend to reflect the skill set and attitude of the people whose sword they took? I vaguely recall (been a while) Shiori being especially level-headed in the arena, and Wakaba was just throwing all kinds of venom around.

No doubt

Juri could have easily gained the Power of Revolution
if Akio and/or Anthy weren't against her.

(though they're not 'against' her, they're just all-for-utena)

I'm writing a fanfic where juri wins ;O
happy ending for juri-san!!!
though alot of people die ;D
This makes me want to write more of it..

If Akio weren't in on Utena's victory
The only reason Juri would not win is because she's too focused on her feelings for Shiori. Then again the "Revolution" is there to fulfil one's desires, right? In which case Juri should win anyway. So if Akio/Anthy didn't exist, Juri would win no matter what (though I'm slightly biased, but i dun care) XD 
Juri-san

I don't think it's really possible to compare Juri to Touga and Saionji outside the arena - kendo and European fencing are two very different things and outside of the arena they would never compete the way they do within the arena - Juri doesn't do kendo and Touga and Saionji don't fence so it's really not possible to have them meet on even ground.

I do think that Juri's the best duellist because like everyone's pointed out before me, she only loses by her own actions - the falling sword and the removal of her own rose. And her loss in the first duel is indeed a miracle - the Sword of Dios could not have become situated directly above her naturally, since it flew off to the side when Juri disarmed Utena. So without that, even with the gloating Juri would have won.

I really do think that Juri didn't want to win - even without the deck stacked against her, what would she do if she won? She tells Ruka when she's in the car that even if she did win, she'd just want to protect Shiori from him. She's so used to being miserable that I don't think she knows what she'd do if she had a chance to be happy.

If I'm not mistaken, I think it might actually be said in the series that only Touga can match Juri's skill. I'm not positive, I may have to rewatch it. Anyway, but as someone stated earlier, you can't really compare the two, seeing as they have different styles. Fencing and Kendo= not the same thing. Just because one person is good at chess and one is good at checkers, this doesn't mean the two are comparable in skill.

Ragnarok wrote:

On another note: The first time we see Juri and Miki duel, Miki wins.

True, but it is followed by "You've finnally beaten me. You're improving."

Xu Yuan wrote:

I'd say out of all the time she activates that power, that is the most cheating time to do so, she's on the floor, Nanami's about to win, then wha? I win button? It's like utena's playing with a Gamshark during that last arc.

Snarf! *giggles insanely* Here I go again!

7E0242FF = Always have Power of Dios in Duels

I have too much free time on my hands...

Yeah I sort of got that impression too... But I don't know, I like to think he's lying simply because I like Touga better.

Juri: Just How Good Is She... In Bed?

Thats a very good question, a question that Shattered-kun can answer from the pictures that I have seen *hehe*