Thoughts about mages, huh?

You know, I honestly don't have any complex thoughts about the situation the mages are in. It's wrong, pure and simple. The certain collateral damage of basically enslaving people is worse than the potential damage caused if they were free. In a world where a rogue is a match for a mage (and yes, I would argue that a rogue and mage of the same level are equally matched in both DA:O and DA2) there is no excuse for the kind of mental and physical bondage that the mages endure.

Also, all the fuss about Andraste and the Chantry and how the touch of human mages tainted the Golden City and the Maker turned his face away is bullshit. Even if all that happened, and even if the Maker did turn his face away from humanity because the Golden City was tainted, punishing people that had nothing to do with that "sin" still makes him a gigantic bag of dicks who would take entirely too much dancing around and placating for my tastes. So, fuck him, he's a jerk. Don't punish the mages on the account of a god who demands mercy and temperance and enlightenment but won't bother to cultivate any himself.

...this may be why I'm not Christian

Oh, I definitely agree. Tevinter is a leetle too much like the end-game Roman Empire; I would be surprised if the writers didn't include some sort of upheaval there after they're done with Orlais.

What do you think would be a good system of checks and balances? I do agree that mages have more destructive power than any other class, so story-wise, they would probably win over a thief (NOT IF THAT THIEF IS BEING PLAYED BY ME ) or a warrior. There would have to be a corresponding organization to watch them for signs of possession/destructive behavior. The system of the templars is a terrible one because it interferes and regulates too much in their lives. What if they took a few steps back? And presented themselves as friends rather than jailers, helping the mages to make sure that everyone, mages, peasants, and nobles alike, is safe? The kind of organization that would ally itself with mages like Wynne in order to prevent harm.

I dunno, I just keep thinking that the Circle mages don't need jailers so much as they need allies to help protect them from everything, even themselves. But I'm a hopeless optimist.

Hey, has anyone read the comics? I'd love to know what goes on in them.

Yasha wrote:

In a world where a rogue is a match for a mage (and yes, I would argue that a rogue and mage of the same level are equally matched in both DA:O and DA2) there is no excuse for the kind of mental and physical bondage that the mages endure.

I don't know that I would agree with this, at least in the equally matched category. I've never had a single enemy rogue take down my entire team before. I have, unfortunately, had a single mage do it. Repeatedly.

So much so that making sure either Morrigan or Wynne has the Mana Clash spell is an absolute requirement, and that I target mages above any other enemy on the field.

Now, granted, these mages are striking from a distance. Once I get in close they are usually toast within one or two swings of my trusty sword sword, sword my diamond sword sword.

But if they have time to unleash multiple AOE or chain-effect spells, they can effectively win the battle without warrior support.

Similarly, on my own side, if I have Morrigan and Wynne combine AOE spells, they can clear the entire field without me having to engage anyone.

I think this type of mass damage is really at the root of the Chantry and Templar's caution.

I do agree with you that there is no excuse for the way the Chantry handles this, and no excuse for the abuse the mages suffer. I can see why they'd feel that way, however.

I think the templars themselves are fine, but their influence by the chantry is not. I think that having templars around to check in on what the mages are doing, templars who -understand- the process and theory of magic, and who are present during experiments to ensure nothing's going wrong or anybody's doing anything evil or blood magey or something would work. Not to shut down pranks, but to basically make sure nobody summons a bunch of demons. An independant mage-group could work for sure, but then it's sort of like trusting the government to police the government.

Quixim wrote:

I think the templars themselves are fine, but their influence by the chantry is not. I think that having templars around to check in on what the mages are doing, templars who -understand- the process and theory of magic, and who are present during experiments to ensure nothing's going wrong or anybody's doing anything evil or blood magey or something would work. Not to shut down pranks, but to basically make sure nobody summons a bunch of demons. An independant mage-group could work for sure, but then it's sort of like trusting the government to police the government.

Maybe the solution could be using scholars who studied magic (there's some kind of college in Orlais) instead of templars, basically someone not controlled by a religious institution ( that is biased against the mages from the get-go ). I think a scientific approach to magic could lead to some breakthroughs, possibly a way to protect against possession or counter blood magic, plus mages would be more willing to cooperate with someone that approaches them with no prejudice.
Plus the whole lyrium addiction thing going on in the templar circles definitely doesn't help, so if templars were tocontinue doing their duty, some effective method of supervision would be necessary...
I agree that while most templars we meet in the games are asses, there are some decent ones, so being a jerk obviously doesn't come with the job

Ashnod wrote:

There is no effort to bring apostate mages into the Circles; essentially to convert them. They are treated as malificar and hunted down because they are not controlled. Mages that practice blood magic are obviously considered a bigger threat than the standard apostate, but these mages are still hunted down and killed.

I agree, surely at least some apostates would be willing to cooperate if they weren't in danger of being killed.
Plus I got the impression ( from games only though ) that some apostates turned to blood magic because they were being hunted by the Chantry, and turned to it as a last resort...all of which could have been avoided if templars acted like you suggest. That would leave only the completely batshit insane mages  as a threat.

Never again, EA.

So in March 2012 Amazon gave me a gift to apologize for Mass Effect 3 being such a turd sandwich: a free copy of Dragon Age Origins. At the time I gave it a spin, played to about level 5, and decided that I was not having fun, so I stopped.

Tonight I decided to give it another go.

The game uses EA's Steam knockoff, Origin. I fired up Origin and downloaded the game, then clicked PLAY. At the main menu for DA:O, I was asked to log in to my Bioware/EA/Origin account, so I entered the appropriate user id and password, and it failed to connect to the EA server. I quit DA:O, quit Origin, launched Origin again, clicked PLAY on DA:O, and tried to log in again. I got in this time.

I checked the DLC menu, because I remember having a lot of it, part of the package from Amazon. There was a list of about twelve bits of DLC to which I was entitled, but had not downloaded. I clicked one to download it. The download failed. Huh. I clicked it again. It failed again, and I was informed by a pop-up that I would now be taken to EA's tech support, and DA:O summoned Firefox and opened a window to the main landing page for EA support. I've been on that site before, and know that it is a fool's errand to get anything done there, so I Xed out of Firefox and tabbed back to DA:O. I tried to download some other bit of DLC, and got the same result.

Huh.

So I fired up Firefox and Googled that shit, because fuck EA. The top result was a 12-page ranty thread in some forum in which a Bioware rep admitted that things were fucked, and linked about four links to bits of DLC, and instructed all to click the links, download the packages, and use a utility program buried three levels deep in the DA:O install folder to install them manually. Like the next ten post replies, I too noticed that this was far fewer bits of DLC than I actually owned. Not wanting to do something that looks wrong at first glance, I minimized that tab and tried something else. I popped over to The Worst Forum On The Internet (social.bioware.com) and clicked into my profile to check the bit about me which lists which products I own, and found about twenty (which is more than twelve) bits of DA:O DLC for which I was eligible.

I manually downloaded all twenty to my desktop and then used the obscure utility buried three layers deep in the file system to install them. No dice. These DLC require a newer version of DA:O.

Wait. I downloaded DA:O through Origin earlier tonight. Is this not the most current version?

No. No it is not. Unlike Steam, Origin does not auto-magically send the most current version of a game, or auto-patch installed games. (To quote Jeff "Joker" Moreau: "what the shiiiiit?")

So, back to Google, where I found (top result, again, because either I am a goddess of Google, or Google knows way too much about me) a twentyish-page angry tech support thread in which some other rep of Bioware posted a week or so ago that all this is solved by the DA:O 1.05 patch, and here's a link.

So I downloaded 1.05, ran the installer, and patched DA:O up to 1.05. Then I ran the obscure utility buried three layers deep in the file system to patch in my twenty bits of DLC. It appeared to work.

I fired up DA:O. The DLC window is broken into three tabs, one showing what you can buy (suspiciously empty), what you can download (full of red X marks from failed download attempts), and what you have installed. The what I have installed tab showed all twenty ready to go. Ordinarily this would please me, but the presence of the same twenty items in the next tab to the left with lots of red X marks and "0% downloaded" comments unnerved me.

I dared not try. Annoyed beyond belief, I closed DA:O and went to do something else, like write this. I'll start playing tomorrow.


. . . maybe.

Oh...it appears that decisions in Golems of Amgarrak & Witch Hunt do not import into Dragon Age II.

Alright then...skipping them and moving on.

I know I'm only nearing the end of Act II, but...

wow...at this point, I think Dragon Age II is unfairly maligned. Supposedly things will happen in Act III that might change my mind, but right now I'm loving it.

Yasha wrote:

Dude, it is SO SHITTY the way people treat it. It's got some problems, but nowhere near worth the venom that gets heaped on it.

And honestly, I hate the way people treated Hepler too. ArthurianRoseKnight, I respect that you don't like her influence, but she was nowhere near the blight on gaming that people treated her as. She made a couple mistakes with her writing that she would have learned from given time-- but no, Bioware fans collectively decided she didn't suck their dick hard enough and deemed her evil and started calling her house and threatening her children.

Present company excepted, I'm convinced that Bioware has the shittiest fans on the face of the planet. I wouldn't wish them on something I hated.

They really threatened her? That's just...I heard there was some kind of a mess with her and the fans, but that is just too much.
Me and a friend started feeling stupid after finishing DA2, as so many people said it was total and absolute shit and we actually liked it. It's not Planescape Torment, but it's not a bad game by any means.

Shame Bioware has so many awful fans. It gives off the impression that they made better games when they didn't care about pleasing the fanbase so much.

Yeah, DAII isn't really a terrible game (rushed as it is), but I got to admit that I miss playing a character who is mostly a "blank slate," so I can make them more my own character.

Ashnod wrote:

How is Hawke less of a blank slate than The Warden? Some of the Warden backgrounds in DA:O are more detailed than Hawke's.

Eh well, I guess part of is that their dialogue choices are voiced,