Ashnod wrote:

And I have a difficult time imagining Ruka as Gryffindor. He's too manipulative, too calculating. I hate to add someone else to Slytherin, but the qualities he exhibits and the manner in which he treats really aren't Gryffindor material. I mean, I know we could make the same argument for a young James Potter and young Sirius Black, but Ruka's behavior strikes me as more indicative of who he really is as opposed to something he might have eventually grown out of.

Everyone knows that Gryffindor and Slytherin are the two most similar houses.   And with Ruka there's the special problem that he's on his deathbed, which probably distorts his behavior.  The argument for Gryffindor is that he is willing to burn his bridges with Juri in order to help her.  The way he helps her is paternalistic and condescending, but Gryffindor is capable of paternalism and condescension when it knows better than you do, so I don't think that's disqualifying.  The question to me is whether he'd do the same if he expected to be alive in a year.  I don't think he would, which I think makes him a Slytherin who's decided he wants his death to mean something.  On the other hand:

Raven Nightshade wrote:

My thing about sorting SKU characters into HP houses is that we have to remember that one gets sorted based on one of the following:

a) some dormant personality trait that needs to be brought out or put to the test

I wonder what the Hat would do with a student who would live like a Slytherin but die like a Gryffindor.

satyreyes wrote:

Everyone knows that Gryffindor and Slytherin are the two most similar houses.

From that perspective, I'd say the only real difference between the two is self-preservation vs. self-sacrifice. From a different perspective, Slytherin represents a variation of the core values of the other three houses. Ravenclaw's intellect becomes Slytherin's cunning. Hufflepuff's loyalty becomes cliquishness. Gryffindor's daring nature becomes ambition.

satyreyes wrote:

Raven Nightshade wrote:

My thing about sorting SKU characters into HP houses is that we have to remember that one gets sorted based on one of the following:

a) some dormant personality trait that needs to be brought out or put to the test

I wonder what the Hat would do with a student who would live like a Slytherin but die like a Gryffindor.

I think it's all about how the person justifies it in their own head, because that's partially what the hat sees. I think that Ruka thinks he's doing the right thing for the right reasons, and he's willing to wreck everything to "save" Juri. That, to me, is Gryffindor logic because there is a certain recklessness to it that other houses lack. So, yeah, I'd put Ruka in Gryffindor in a hot second.

I also agree that Saionji is a Hufflepuff, albeit the most unpleasant Hufflepuff ever. However, he nails pretty much every other quality, even fairness.

And why is it just assumed Miki would sort into Ravenclaw? Yeah, he's smart as hell, but is that important to his value system? He could pull a Hermione and ask to be sorted elsewhere while the Hat keeps trying to put him in Ravenclaw. I think he would throw all of his talent and intellect into the ocean to have a relationship with his sister again.

satyreyes wrote:

I started writing an argument that Kozue might be a Ravenclaw, but I deleted it.  My point was that her behavior towards Miki is not specifically Slytherin behavior; it's not like Gryffindors don't go on spite dates or treat each other passive-aggressively.  But then I got to "okay, how does she treat people who aren't Miki?", and... yeah, her attitude towards them is an instrumental one, which is a pretty distinctively Slytherin trait.  I want to give her the benefit of the doubt as a probable abuse victim, but... you know what, a lot of Slytherins are who they are because they're abuse victims, and the Hat doesn't give them the benefit of the doubt.

Possibly. It could also be that many of these kids aren't Slytherin because they were abused. They could be Slytherin because of upbringing, as much as any parent tends to pass on their values and beliefs to their children, and also be the victims of abuse. As you said, the books don't really dive heavily into the how much the Hat might take something like that into account. Are some Slytherins they way that they are because they are damaged? Possibly, perhaps even probably.

As a big fan of Slytherin, I am not in favor of the idea that being Slytherin indicates you are damaged in some way, that a healthy individual would never find herself or himself in Slytherin. Or that it is the House where a child that is evil gets put. Or, even more problematically, that one can only have Slytherin qualities if they are a victim.

Touga, for example, I'd put in Slytherin not because he is evil but because he is very, very ambitious. I don't think his ambition is due to any abuse he may have suffered (though I'm not discounting that it may be), but rather part of who he is. 

Would the Hat put Miki in Slytherin if he demanded to follow Kozue?  I remember Padma and Parvati Patil are twins who get sorted into different houses, even though they're close.  To me Miki seems like a born Ravenclaw.  Is his intelligence part of his value system?  Maybe not, but his intelligence certainly is the lens through which he approaches new problems.  To take a random example, a Gryffindor might ask "Why is this egg important to you?" before breaking out the magnifying glass.  And I'd like to think that most Gryffindors are too aware of others' needs to take part in a dueling game for possession of a human.  So he's not a Gryffindor.  But he also doesn't approach human relationships with the instrumental attitude that his sister does; he has actual friends who he apparently cares about even when it doesn't benefit him.  There's no ruthlessness about him, just normal selfishness that you could find in any house.  I don't think he'd last very long in Slytherin, or at least not in the polarized Slytherin of the books' timeline.

One also needs to consider whether or not the Hat would put a student into a House where that student would fail miserably. I don't think so. I think you have some degree of control of where the Hat puts you, but you don't have absolute autonomy. If the Hat feels you couldn't succeed in a particular House, it would consider what you wanted but ultimately overrule you.

Miki, in my opinion, isn't courageous, loyal, or ambitious. Even if he wanted to go to Slytherin to follow Kozue, I think the Hat would recognize that Slytherin wouldn't be good for him.

Sometimes it isn't about what you are but instead about what you are not.

Last edited by Ashnod (01-16-2016 07:27:24 AM)