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Thank you so so much to Nagumo for translating this interview, and Ayu Ohseki for proofreading the translation!!!
Mitsuhiro Oikawa X Revolutionary Girl Utena
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Written by Kuroki Rie
A mixture of Terayama Shuuji’s angura plays and Takarazuka!? Utena, which revolutionized the shoujo manga world, is coming to movie theaters this summer! Former Prince Micchi, who appeared in the film, and creator Ms. Saitou Chiho discuss their take on the work’s theme: “Beauty and Eros”!
“Absolute Destiny Apocalypse”
As Terayama Shuuji’s righthand man in the avant-garde theater laboratory Tenjou Sajiki (Trans: Ceiling Seating), J.A. Seazer was in charge of music and directing. Are readers aware of the TV anime Revolutionary Girl Utena, where his sensational choral creations kick off the main act? Clad in shorts and a boys’ uniform, young middle school girl Tenjou Utena repeatedly fights Duels at school to protect her friend, the “Rose Bride” Anthy, all while being led along by the mysterious "Ends of the World"… A cult classic, Utena features a boyishly dressed main character proclaiming, “I’ll be your prince,” beautifully aesthetic duel scenes with twirling roses, and the previously mentioned eerily bewitching progressive rock choral music of Mr. Seazer. This dazzlingly beautiful and twisted world sparked much widespread discourse and garnered a loyal following.
While the TV anime aired for 9 months, Utena was also serialized in the shoujo manga magazine “Ciao.” This summer, a year and a half after each ended, a movie will be released nationwide. The movie Revolutionary Girl Utena: Adolescence Apocalypse is a completely new story but borrows its world setting from the TV series. In the renewed version, Mitsuhiro Oikawa, a.k.a. Micchi, voice-acts one of the main characters. Surprisingly, he decided to appear in the film because our magazine ‘H!’ inspired him to!
And so this extravagant project leads here, to a joint photo of Micchi and the creator of Utena, Saitou Chiho (taken at a Tokyo love hotel of all things!). Ms. Saito also drew a special illustration of Utena and Micchi together. In this interview, the two will talk deeply about their work, which has a lot in common with each other.
—The reason why Mr. Oikawa decided to appear in this movie is because Saitou-sensei drew a live report on Mr. Oikawa in the 22nd issue of "H," right?
Oikawa: "That's right. Chiho-baby came to my live show at the Akasaka Blitz* and we met in the lobby. Things started after that. I had already seen Revolutionary Girl Utena, as a fan had recommended it to me before even officially working on it. I received a lot of related materials after accepting the job, but it turns out my Micchi Palace already had all of them (laugh)."
*Note: Akasaka Blitz closed in 2020 due to COVID-19. It was opened in 1996 by TBS TV as a music venue.
Saitou: "My assistant is a big fan of Micchi's, so his videos and stuff were always playing while they worked. I already knew quite a bit about him."
— Do you feel a connection with your manga world and Mr. Oikawa's world due to their similarity?
Oikawa: "Yes, I think so. I'm a musician, but shoujo manga... not just that but manga in general, movies and anime... have all influenced me to become the person I am. Even tokusatsu* hero shows. Anything like that is A-OK. Anyways, it's like, I think I've always had this strong desire to transform myself to be different from other kids in my neighbourhood."
*Note: Tokusatsu is a Japanese term for live-action films or television programs that make heavy use of practical special effects.
Saitou: "So then everything now progressed from that?"
Oikawa: "Standing on the stage might indeed be my natural progression. As an artist, I create my works by gathering a mishmash of ideas that tickle my fancy... You could even say I'm creating a philosophical work, but as a performer, I think I'm doing it to satisfy my desire to transform."
Saitou: "But I also think that Micchi's physical appearance had a huge influence on making that possible."
Oikawa: "That's all thanks to my mama and papa (laugh). Have to be grateful to my parents."
Saitou: “During the photoshoot, I felt as if I had just entered Takarazuka and just happened to run into a beautiful senior student dressed up as Oscar backstage.”
Oikawa: “But Takarazuka isn’t for men though, right? So I’ve been thinking lately, gender doesn't really matter all that much to the babies out there when it comes to their particular sense of admiration and beauty. What do you think?
Saitou: "Hmm... When I was much younger, I had strong feelings that it had to be a man no matter what, but that feeling’s been fading away lately (laugh). In my mind, men and women possess the same qualities that make human beings beautiful.”
Oikawa: “Right? Ever since I was 20 years old, I always felt that. So naturally, when I debuted to the public, I’d get told I seemed ‘faggy’ or asked if I was gay. I couldn’t care less about that; it’s just… lately, I find myself thinking how ‘beauty is power’ (laugh). I think how boring reality would be if we lacked the sensitivity to recognize beauty in beautiful things. So boring. Sure, daily life might be built on common sense and conventions, but I feel the romanticism of the worlds of, say, David Bowie and Go Nagai should be enjoyed without such limits. Don’t you think the world of manga challenges common sense and conventions by removing them first? By saying it’s OK to lie?”
Saitou: "I certainly draw with the attitude that it’s OK to lie.”
― Utena is quite an unconventional work. What makes its world-building fresh is its theatre-like components, whether it be music or direction, wouldn’t you say?
Oikawa: “That’s true. I agree, calling it theatrical wouldn’t be far off."
Saitou: “Well, it’s the result of the production staffs’ personal interests (laugh). Even I once wanted to join the Takarazuka.”
Oikawa: “I was really nervous about Mr. Seazer until I got to meet him. I like both Terayama and that sort of world. As both an actor and stage actor, it’s something I’ve always wanted to be a part of. ‘Underground theatre’ calls up this bleak and gloomy image. Yet the reason why it’s called 'underground' is because people daringly experimented with subjects that self-censoring major theatre wouldn't touch. There's no denying that."
―I heard you've been doing theatre, Mr. Oikawa. How long have you been a member of a theatre troupe?
Oikawa: "Let me see. If I include the time spent learning the basic skills, three years."
Saitou: "What! So then you did things like 'be a dog' or 'be a rock'?"
Oikawa: "That's quite extreme, don't you think? (laugh) But I did learn the basics through various... etudes and such, as normal. I think the theatricality of Utena is extremely effective. Be it the use of shadow plays or the music, you might say there’s a sense of catharsis."
Saitou: "The director said it's to emphasize, ‘This is not reality.’ He didn’t want people to confuse anime with reality."
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Oikawa: "That's the kind of person Director Ikuhara (Kunihiko) is. I always tell my fans, “Let’s talk about romanticism after we have a proper grasp on reality,” and it’s a similar message. It’s no mere escapism but romanticism as entertainment. Revel in it by indulging the senses. The world of music has plenty of that. It feels like they hide that it’s all lies and claim it’s true (laugh). Yes, a lie that pretends to be truth. I often feel this is quite disrespectful to the listeners."
Saitou: "You’re always emphasizing that this all just fiction, isn't that so, Micchi?”
Oikawa: “That’s right. I’m always going around saying, ‘The hero within the world of my song lyrics is not 100% Oikawa Mitsuhiro.’ It’s just that, every work of fiction has fragments of reality embedded in it. That’s because even if the creation is a lie, the creator is a real person living in reality."
Saitou: “I honestly can’t draw something that isn’t true to me. I just can’t do it. If I don’t put myself into the work, it becomes too painful to do. No matter how artificial it is, you can’t help but catch glimpses of something a person would recognize as real.”
Oikawa: “That’s because it’s been created by flesh-and-blood human beings. Be it anime or music, as long as it’s a work that allows self-expression, then that is where artistry and humanity are born.”
Saitou: “When I look at your songs and lyrics, they take a pretty erotic route. Maybe it’s how Micchi expresses his good nature? How to put it—it feels like there’s this natural heat seeping out from them."
Oikawa: “Don’t you get it, Chiho-baby? That’s because sex is hot!”
Saitou: “Ahahaha. You got me there (laugh).”
Oikawa: “I always use eros as my theme is because I think it’s the most human thing.”
Saitou: “After all, we have to recognize in ourselves that we need food, sleep, and sex. Though, for me, I realized that when I was quite young.”
Oikawa: “Oh my, how precocious.”
Saitou: “(Laugh) I was about ten years old. Until then, I’d lived doing what my teacher and parents told me to. Then suddenly, I thought to myself, ‘I’m an animal, and I’m going to die,’ and was confronted with the issue of sexuality. So I started secretly reading up on it on my own (laugh).”
Oikawa: “Wow, at ten? So you started before school taught you sex ed*, huh? (laugh)”
*Note: Health and Physical education is provided as a single class in Japan for general education in middle school and high school.
Saitou: "But that's philosophy. When we don't recognize the issues of death and sexuality, we don't know how to live. So when I was participating in the planning of Utena, I discussed this with the director and others. That’s why it thrives in the framework of Utena (laugh)."
Oikawa: "The point is that it's an awakening. Like when a girl is changing into a woman, and the troubles and conflicts caused by it. Whether it’s shounen manga or whatever else, I believe it’s a style that will likely be told on and on forever. But I think it’s extremely valuable to create works that create an awareness of sexual awakening."
Saitou: “Are you making those sorts of work, too?”
Oikawa: “I am (laugh)… For me, my sexual awakening was Dororon Enma-kun by Go Nagai. There was this character named Princess Yukiko, and she's supposed to be a snow spirit, but she wore this really short kimono (laugh). But back then, I wasn't thinking about death or how to live; it simply excited the male mechanism in me. I mean, Princess Yukiko strips off her kimono and takes a bath but because she's a snow spirit, the bathtub is made of ice. So she enters the ice. And I'd be like 'oh my' (laugh)."
Saitou: "Go Nagai came up with some amazing things..."
Oikawa: "Go Nagai just is amazing."
-What was the manga that inspired you?
Saitou: "For me, it was 'Rose of Versailles'* that did it."
*Note: She uses short hand 'berubara' in Japanese
Oikawa: "'Rose of Versailles' (laugh). Of course."
Saitou: "I kind of wanted to become a mangaka, but reading 'Rose of Versailles' locked that in for me."
Oikawa: "Lately in anime and manga, I feel that I can't sense the creators' individuality. What do you think? In particular, anime characters all look similar."
Saitou: "Hmm. It must be because their top priority is to cater to what’s in vogue."
Oikawa: "Aha, so it's the same everywhere. Pfft (laugh)."
Saitou: "(Laugh) After all, there's this heavy pressure to do what's popular. So there were plenty of times where Utena also had to free itself from that pressure. Actually, at first, the project was planned to be conventionally popular, but when we suddenly tossed out that idea, Utena changed dramatically. It got to the point where I wondered if rejecting what was popular this hard was really the right choice."
Oikawa: "That's all Director Ikuhara's fault (laugh). Well, I think it's great when the creator runs wild like some wild-eyed prophet."
Saitou: "Well, he honed his craft by working on Sailor Moon, learning what appealed from it and building on that base. If you aim to make a cult classic from the start, it'll end up an incomprehensible mess. It's the same for manga artists; you need to have the fundamentals down pat if you want to do something out of the ordinary and have it be accepted or allowed. Personally, I adore this kind of standard (laugh)."
Oikawa: “It’s like trying to hit a kind of sweet spot.”
Saitou: “You like the golden standards too, right? There’s songs from musicals, others are like jazz from the past.”
Oikawa: “I’d call them ‘traditional’ rather than ‘standard,’ myself. I feel that music that shows off its roots, like 1930s American jazz, will always touch people, no matter what era they’re listening from. All the new music we hear today is technology-driven. Ultimately, that’s changed the ‘standard’ sound and given rise to methods like sampling with machines. It’d be great if it got the artist’s message or artistry across a bit more. Technology and I can co-exist, but I don’t want to be outdone by it."
- You got to have your own set of values.
Oikawa: “Yeah. You can imitate as much as you want, but we happen to have uniqueness, and in this business, it's considered good to show that off. You mentioned earlier that there’s this obsessive desire to cater to what people like best even in the world of anime, but I think if we continue to create works based solely on marketing research and just give only what people they think they like, then the end result is users will stop asking for anything at all because it’s just there. If that happens, then the next generation of potential artists will stop being creative. After all, you can’t be a good boyfriend by following a cookie-cutter date plan.”
- That’s true (Laugh).
Oikawa: “In this day and age, it’s not about who’s singing about or depicting eros and death. It’s already a fundamental theme.”
- And the Utena movie is naturally eros too.
Saitou: “Oh, it’s very erotic (laugh). And Micchi’s tastes are added in, so I’m certain it’ll be very distinct.”
Oikawa: “I’m sure that the character I play, Ohtori Akio, could exist in my world of song as a category or moral, but I wonder? I’ll have to ask the director.”
Saitou: “(laugh). But you know, he’s not the type to give a straight answer.”
Oikawa: “Yeah, he’s quite the shy man (laugh).”
 Left: Micchi's First Time Voice Acting! He plays Ohtori Akio Right: Main Character Tenjou Utena |
A beautiful boy named Tenjou Utena transfers to Ohtori Academy, a prestigious boarding school. In truth, though, he’s a girl who decided to act like a man in order to live as a noble “Prince” after a certain incident. While there, she meets her ex-boyfriend Kiryuu Touga, and Himemiya Anthy, a mysterious girl known as the “Rose Bride.” Before long, she gets caught up in duels against the Duelists... Nationwide film release on August 14.
●20 people are invited to see the preview of the completed Revolutionary Girl Utena: Adolescence Apocalypse! On the day of the event, Oikawa-san and Saito-sensei will give an on-stage speech. The screening will be held at Yurakucho Yomiuri Hall on July 28th (Wed.) at 19:00. To apply, please write “Utena Preview Screening Request” on the enclosed questionnaire form. Must be received before July 10th.
Outfitting Lent by : Grace Daikanyama (03 5456 0209) ● Corniche (03 3401 5040) ● Rough Diamond (03 3463 4155)
Photography Locale : Meguro Club Sekitei (03 3494 1211)
*Note: YEP THE LOVE HOTEL IS STILL OPEN AND IT'S ONE OF THE BEST KNOWN ONES EVER BECAUSE IT'S A CASTLE
©Be-Papas ● Saitou Chiho/ Shougakukan ● RevGirl Committee ● TV Tokyo
©1999 Revolutionary Girl Utena Production Committee
Vanna's note: Check out the Chu-chu inflatable that was some kind of special merch from the magazine! I've seen one on Yahoo Japan Auctions for $300bux. Ow.
Shoujo Kakumei Utena (Revolutionary Girl Utena) is © Kunihiko Ikuhara, Chiho Saito, Shogakukan and bePapas/TV Tokyo and/or their respective copyright holders. The US release of the Revolutionary Girl Utena series and movie was © Central Park Media and now belongs to Right Stuf. The US release of the Utena manga is © VIZ. The various sources used in this site are noted where their content is presented. Don't sue us, seriously. Blood. Stone.